Among all the scenes from BLEACH manga,I think Ichigo's hollowfication is the most complicated scene to interpret/analyze.Not only that most of the Ichihime's used to say that this is the strongest Ichihime proof,it is also claimed as a proof of their (Icihime) greatest fail by some Ichihiruki's.
here's what they used to say about this...
Some Ichihime's interpretations :
If she dies, there's no raising Ichigo from the dead. There's no raising anyone from the dead. Seriously though, Ichigo's regaining the ability to vocalize has come out as "I'll help you...". Who asked for help? Ishida? No. Ulquiorra? No. There's only one person, and that person is Orihime.SO IT WASNT NECESSARILY THAT HE HEARD ORIHIME NOW DID HE? BUT HE HEARD THAT SOMEONE NEEDED PROTECTION... who then??? who do ya think??? or would u like a list which includes everyone's name except for the redhead with a rack???who is that someone then? im just stating that why is it so hard to acknowledge it was orihime gave him a REASON to live- to protect her and their nakamas, true in hollow form he's still driven to protect that someone.Hollow-ichigo is the king and ichigo is the horse on that moment of role reversal. the hollow knows ichigo's relationships, because it is HIM. darker, violent and sadistic part of him (although tamed, will find any chance he gets to take over)
Some Ichiruki's interpretations :
IchiThing ran on Ichigo's raw instinct, if there is anyone in need of protection, he will protect because that is the man Ichigo is. He lives and fights because he wants to protect a mountain of people. Although, if Ichigo's so called 'purpose' for living was only for Orihime and that was really Ichigo's undying love, why would he stab his friend? IchiThing didn't recognize Ichigo's relationships, because if it did, it would have not stabbed Ishida. From what I see, IchiThing protected Orihime from everything because she called for his help, nothing more.
Though they have different interpretations as to why did Ichigo's hollow showed up (some Ichihime's used to think that it was because of Ichigo's strong will to protect Orihime,because he might have a romantic feelings for her.On the other hand,Ichiruki's used to think that the hollow is just acting through Ichigo's raw instinct.),all of them (even non shippers) believes that...
"Orihime's cry for HELP is the thing that triggers Ichigo's hollowfication"
However,the only problem I perceived with this kind of assumptions is that...it doesn't match with how most of them (probably,all of them actually) used to see Hollow Ichigo.
for example...
"Hollow-ichigo is the king and ichigo is the horse on that moment of role reversal. the hollow knows ichigo's relationships, because it is HIM. darker, violent and sadistic part of him (although tamed, will find any chance he gets to take over)"
Even if we say that he knew Ichigo's relationships with everyone since he's a part of him,it's still impossible to believe that he would respond to the person who called for help,since hollow Ichigo only loves to fight (this is what it means when someone says that he was a darker,violent,and sadistic part of him,right?),and devour Ichigo.Wanting to devour Ichigo's body/soul could only mean that he doesn't care about him,since in order to devour Ichigo's body/soul,he needed to 'cease' his existence before he could do so,just like how Ichigo wanted to 'cease' him,so he could take control.In short,why would he care for Ichigo's relationship with anyone,if he's only going to 'cease' him?
and for this one...
"IchiThing ran on Ichigo's raw instinct, if there is anyone in need of protection, he will protect because that is the man Ichigo is. IchiThing protected Orihime from everything because she called for his help, nothing more."
If Hollow Ichigo really is just acting through Ichigo's raw instinct that might be the reason why he came out to protect Orihime,then why does this thing happened in the first place?
Don't you think it's weird that he didn't take the consideration to at least move away from her,so she wouldn't get blown away because of his reiatsu's pressure?Not to mention,he didn't even take the effort to catch her at the very least.Is that how someone who came to protect the girl used to behave?I don't think so...
another thing,I couldn't help but to point out this thing as well...
"If she dies, there's no raising Ichigo from the dead. There's no raising anyone from the dead. Seriously though, Ichigo's regaining the ability to vocalize has come out as "I'll help you...". Who asked for help? Ishida? No. Ulquiorra? No. There's only one person, and that person is Orihime.SO IT WASNT NECESSARILY THAT HE HEARD ORIHIME NOW DID HE? BUT HE HEARD THAT SOMEONE NEEDED PROTECTION... who then??? who do ya think??? or would u like a list which includes everyone's name except for the redhead with a rack???who is that someone then? im just stating that why is it so hard to acknowledge it was orihime gave him a REASON to live- to protect her and their nakamas, true in hollow form he's still driven to protect that someone."
Why does some people are making a big deal out of this?Who asked for help?This argument only sounds like,if it weren't Orihime,Ichigo would not respond to the person who cried for help.That would definitely go against the kind of character that Ichigo used to have in the story (a man who wanted to protect mountain loads of people).
though,I think this person gives me a better understanding to what they wanted to say...
"well for me is kind of hard to express with words why i like it, i just feel romantic chemestry between the two of them, how ichigo gets insanely mad when someone wants to hurt her. the way he promised that he was going to protect her, the way when a fight is about to start or when it ends he always takes his time to ask her if she is ok (even when there's other people around) he asks orihime if she is fine without asking anyone else, for me is very romantic that when he heard her crying he turns himself into a hollow (i know for u is something bad, but for me is insanely romantic, is like when someone messes with ur gf in real life and u get so mad that u don't mind acting violently towars the person is hurting ur girl, i know it's not something that someone should be proud of, but when u see someone u care about get hurt u then to get mad to the point u act in a violent way) and for me those are al ichigo showing some kind of interest for orihime beyond friendship (but i know for u is nothing, is only friendship, which is why i said is kind of pointless to say why i think i see it as romantic)"
Hmm,Ichigo getting insanely mad because someone wants to hurt Orihime?Please read here to see if it's true that Ichigo really is getting insanely mad when someone wants to hurt (only) Orihime.I have also seen someone mentioned that Ichigo is very responsive towards Orihime,so I have decided to write something about that in here
I just want to ask something about this getting insanely mad,and turning himself (Ichigo) into a hollow thingy.Have you ever seen Ichigo turning into a hollow whenever he was very angry?The answer to this question is the reason why I don't think that "Orihime's cry for help is the thing that triggered Ichigo's hollowfication"....why?please read here
Make sure that you have read my essay from the link that I have posted above.From there,you will see when are the times that hollow Ichigo usually shows up and why.
let's now move on to my interpretation of Ichigo's hollowfication....
point 1
There's no previous incident that Ichigo's hollow showed up when Ichigo is very angry.Ichigo gets easily angry,it is a part of his character,but never once that his hollow appeared in any of those times.In that case,saying that Ichigo turned into a hollow because of his anger towards someone who was threatening to hurt Orihime has been nulled.
point 2
Ichigo never wanted to let hollow Ichigo to take control of his body/soul.In that case,I would definitely agree that it might be something romantic if he does that just to protect Orihime,because it shows that he is willing to sacrifice his humanity just for her sake.Unfortunately,if Ichigo really does that kind of thing (turning himself into a hollow),then why is he acting like this after regaining his consciousness?
Ichigo said it clearly,that is not the way he wanted to win.In short,everything that happened is definitely not his intention.From Ichigo's own words,it is clear that he never intend to turn himself into a hollow,because he doesn't want to defeat his enemy in that kind of way.As a result,Ichigo turning himself into a hollow intentionally has been nulled as well.
point 3
If Ichigo's hollow really is just acting through Ichigo's raw instinct which is to protect,that's why he came out and responded to Orihime's cry for help...
...that would definitely go against what he said here...
Hollow Ichigo is a part of Zangetsu,right?I believe I don't have to elaborate that part.Zangetsu said those words when his fight with Ulquiora was already finished (it was during his training for the FGT),which means that his fight with Ulquiora (that some people are implying to be a fight to protect Orihime) is not an exemption.In short,he doesn't care whatever may happen to Orihime,the one who cried for help,the one that Ichigo wanted to protect (as what some people wants to put it).If hollow Ichigo doesn't care to anything that Ichigo wanted to protect (Orihime at that time),then why would he respond to the said person who was crying for help?This only means one thing,hollow Ichigo never showed up because Orihime cried for help,and that he wanted to protect her.
point 4
If Orihime's cry for help is not the thing that triggered or made hollow Ichigo to show up,then what is it?
...it was this...
Ichigo lying half dead on the ground,he was dying.What do you think will happen if Ichigo will die?...it was this...
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remember this?...
He said it clearly,the time that he would show up again is when Ichigo died.He told Ichigo to take care,because that is the only thing that he wanted.He wanted Ichigo to stay alive,because his life depends on him.
A/N :
Based from my analysis's results,Orihime's cry for help is definitely not the thing that triggered,or is the reason why hollow Ichigo showed up.Hollow Ichigo showed up because Ichigo was dying.If Ichigo dies,he will die as well,and he would not let that happen.This also means that Orihime is definitely not the reason why Ichigo came back to life (as what some people used to put it).It was only Ichigo's hollow who saved him,not Orihime.
9 comments:
Well, sadly you are not writting anymore but I hope you can help me with something. The translations you use as proofs where did you find them? I would like to know the source since sometimes they are different from the ones online.
For example: In the scene where Ulquiorra is turning into ash in your version Ichigo says: "This isn't the way I wanted to win" (it shows very clearly that what happened wasn't his intention) but in the other translations I found Ishigo says: "Is this any way to win?" it is more subtle. So I would like to compare both sources.
Your analysis is flawed. Ichigo's will to live is sparked by Orihime's cry for help. Given his weakened condition the Hollow takes over (please note that this, just as the majority of yours and many other's analysis', is merely an interpretation based on logic and knowledge of character). It becomes clear that after the acknowledgment of Orihime's cry for help Ichigo loses his control. The fight itself bares no relation to a proof of chemistry between the two. Based on that, the majority of this article is redundant. Up to the point in both manga and anime that is mentioned above Ichigo is yet to acknowledge Orihime's true feelings towards him and the relationship is still one sided despite the fact that Ichigo's actions imply that he cares deeply for Orihime but not clearly proven on a romantic level. I feel that even though this particular moment is widely discussed by shippers it is still a poor event to draw conclusive proof.
I completely agree with you. I'm not a Bleach shipper, but I am a Bleach and Ichigo fan and this showed up when I was searching up Bleach. IchiHime isn't meant to be. Yes, true that Orihime loves Ichigo, but people please open up your eyes and see that IchiRuki are the one. Rukia and Ichigo help eachother out, call eachother names, clash, call eachother by their first names while Orihime and Ichigo still call eachother by their surnames. I find both IchiHime and IchiRuki a beautiful pairing, but what matters the most is how they interact and what they do and what makes them ONE true pairing. Ichigo protects everyone, okay? And Orihime was definitely NOT the person to trigger Ichigo to become his hollow form. Hello IchiHime shippers don't you see that Ichigo was not saved by her, alright? He was saved by his HOLLOW. End of story.
You're fucking wrong. I'm sorry, but you IchiHime shippers are blind. I'm not saying they're a stupid shipping, but seriously? "Ichigo's will to live is sparkled by Orihime's cry for help." NO. His Hollow saved his life, I bet if his hollow wasn't there for him even Orihime's healing powers still wouldn't revive him from the dead. Even if Rukia were to be in Orihime's place I would've said the exact same thing cause his freaking hollow saved him! Sure, he's the man to protect and all, but her cry did not help him come back to life. Yes, she needed help and she asked if she never asked I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have even gotten up at that very moment.
I don't support IchiRuki or IchiHime because I see nothing in IchiHime and I only see IchiRuki as best friend whereas RenRuki should get together. Not that I ship it, but at the very least I see RenRuki happening.
I'm only an Ichigo fan, that's it.
I had mistakenly taken the fact that in the Bleach fandom there was an acknowledgement that Ichigo's inner hollow has pretty much one basic priority: survival. I would think that the complexities of Ichigo's relations with his powers would have merit more discussion, yet it has only fueled shipper wars. Which is why, it's lovely to see that someone actually wrote a dang essay about it. Kudos to you.
Since, this Ichihime and IchiRuki debate has sprawled into unimaginable lengths, I figure I would add my two cents.
Let's be clear, the point when Orihime starts screaming bloody murder Ichigo is utterly defeated. I am tired of arguing about that so let be clear here this is all my interpretation feel free to hate it and all the usual. To me he is, that is his limit and it's some parts wonderful to see that one of your favourite imaginary characters has real 'human' limits.
Now, the emergence of his hollow I have come to conclude is triggered by Orihime. Instead, of always hating on characters let's try to look positively here, and believe that Kubo knows what he's doing. Ironically, Orihime is one of the few that is always hyper aware of their limitations, yet when Ichigo has reached past his she urges him to get the fuck up and do something about it. Insane as fuck asking a "dead" man to get up but their you have it. No one ever said that love was standard and reasonable.
K. R.
Now, Rukia gave Ichigo some of her powers and kickstarted this whole adventure, but I believe Orihime is able to do something to him that she can't. She is the only one crazy enough to try and urge a dead man up. What she does is appeal to Ichigo's main drive, his desire to protect. She urges from him change, and forces himself to be better and to get better. For one reason because she isn't. She'll never be able to. (On a side note, it would be cool if Kubo levelled her up. I mean she could reduce anyone to absolutely nothing. I mean nothing, come on Kubo let's put to use this cool ass power. And never say never.)
I think many in the shipper wars fail to analyse this from a characer perspective, as in realise that this is all Kubo's doing.
There must be a reason behind Orihime's weak characterisation. I refuse to belive he would simply create a bimbo with boobs without absolutely no purpose (as many Orihime haters dub her). Why waste time like that?
Following from my side note. Her weakness feeds Ichigo's strength in a way. So lying there completely broken, she appeals to his basic need and this triggers something as deadly as fuck. Cue in a badass transformation.
There are many ways to view this, I'm going to stick with my perspective. Orihime awakens within him the realisation that he cannot win. I believe giving into his hollow transformation fully is intentional. There is an awareness that he needs this power and he needs it now. Flashback to the fight with Byakuya, Ichigo wills his hollow away and he is determined to die or win without it. Thus, it appears to me that in this situation his hollow which acts on the basis of survival and victory has taken over and Ichigo has willingly let it. Some may say that oh, he didn't willingly let Hollow Ichigo delegate him to horse position, but I believe he did.
No attempt was made to sudue his hollow form. Even when he was completely untrained during the Byakuya fight he tried and succeeded. The reason I belive he asks,so grief stricken "Is this anyway to win?" Is precisely because he does not want toever win without being in full control of his own body and power.
Yet, he is to blame for this lack of restraint (As seen by Orihime flying face first in the dirt) because he refuses to fully acknowledge this dark and more sinister side of him.
It can be perceived that Orihime did trigger this,on the basis that no other character has been written for the role of trying to wake a defeated man. What she has awaken in Ichigo is one of his darkest fears. I feel that we fail to appreciate this. She has forced a confrontation. Hollow Ichigo,does not give a damn about relationships I do not think that's valid proof of Ichihime. He's priority is survival,and through whatever means necessary.
It is this side of Ichigo, that he is ashamed of,a side of him that he finds so throughly despicable. No wonder he is outraged over the victory.
I think the IchiHime fandom would be more correct (perhaps,not correct but more plausible) to say that for Orihime's sake he does resign himself to the horse role and victory in this manner. His inner beast has been awaken and he devasted, to his sense of honour the brutality of Hollow Ichigo is revolting, but even more repugnant is the fact that this persona is part of him so utterly. Thus, why he begs the question "Is this any way to win?" It is of course to him not the right way, but did he ever try to stop it in the midst. The answer is no.
I do believe, it is because of Orihime that he has submitted to his inner demon whether it is because of his strong desire to always protect or love only Kubo can answer that.
It is no wonder he has no desire for a heartfelt reunion. Orihime has left him wrecked with the acknowledgement that, one he needed his hollow and two, it is ultimately a part of him.
For Kubo, it is mostly a plot device that( allows Ichigo to eventually explore the complexity of he, himself as an individual and the contradicting desires that are prone to exist when one is human (amongst so many other things. How he is not a chaotic mess beggars the mind.)
And obviously, his hollow saved him, why is this even up for debate. As for point 3, I'm writing this on my phone so I may be wrong. But, why does Orihime's role in awakening the hollow and the hollow's desire for survival have to been mutually exclusive.
I do agree that I see an inexplicable chemistry between them. I don't believe a Rukia relationship would work where he always had to feel beholden to her for intiating his powers, and enabling him to save themselves and his family. I think it'd defintely an honour thing to always be indebted to her
I don't have any accounts so this is on anonymous.
Cheers,
K. R.
P.S. I had no space
No attempt was made to sudue his hollow form. Even when he was completely untrained during the Byakuya fight he tried and succeeded. The reason I belive he asks,so grief stricken "Is this anyway to win?" Is precisely because he does not want toever win without being in full control of his own body and power.
Yet, he is to blame for this lack of restraint (As seen by Orihime flying face first in the dirt) because he refuses to fully acknowledge this dark and more sinister side of him.
It can be perceived that Orihime did trigger this,on the basis that no other character has been written for the role of trying to wake a defeated man. What she has awaken in Ichigo is one of his darkest fears. I feel that we fail to appreciate this. She has forced a confrontation. Hollow Ichigo,does not give a damn about relationships I do not think that's valid proof of Ichihime. He's priority is survival,and through whatever means necessary.
It is this side of Ichigo, that he is ashamed of,a side of him that he finds so throughly despicable. No wonder he is outraged over the victory.
I think the IchiHime fandom would be more correct (perhaps,not correct but more plausible) to say that for Orihime's sake he does resign himself to the horse role and victory in this manner. His inner beast has been awaken and he devasted, to his sense of honour the brutality of Hollow Ichigo is revolting, but even more repugnant is the fact that this persona is part of him so utterly. Thus, why he begs the question "Is this any way to win?" It is of course to him not the right way, but did he ever try to stop it in the midst. The answer is no.
I do believe, it is because of Orihime that he has submitted to his inner demon whether it is because of his strong desire to always protect or love only Kubo can answer that.
It is no wonder he has no desire for a heartfelt reunion. Orihime has left him wrecked with the acknowledgement that, one he needed his hollow and two, it is ultimately a part of him.
For Kubo, it is mostly a plot device that( allows Ichigo to eventually explore the complexity of he, himself as an individual and the contradicting desires that are prone to exist when one is human (amongst so many other things. How he is not a chaotic mess beggars the mind.)
And obviously, his hollow saved him, why is this even up for debate. As for point 3, I'm writing this on my phone so I may be wrong. But, why does Orihime's role in awakening the hollow and the hollow's desire for survival have to been mutually exclusive.
I do agree that I see an inexplicable chemistry between them. I don't believe a Rukia relationship would work where he always had to feel beholden to her for intiating his powers, and enabling him to save themselves and his family. I think it'd defintely an honour thing to always be indebted to her
I don't have any accounts so this is on anonymous.
Cheers,
K. R.
P.S. I had no space
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